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	<title>Comments on: Indirectly</title>
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	<description>Specialty Coffee in the Lone Star State</description>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a huge amount of grapes grown, and very little of it goes into the high-end bottlings. I&#039;m really talking about the equivalent very high end of coffee, not the commodity market. I may be misunderstanding your comment, but volume seems irrelevant. I still have no idea if the model translates, but it does seem to this outsider like the coffee world is very focussed on marketing words (even, sadly, among the good people doing the right things) and that quality is not rewarded as much as it might be. I don&#039;t know enough about coffee agriculture to know if a roaster could ask a grower to do certain things to improve quality and promise a certain amount of money no matter the yield. Most winemakers can go to the vineyard regularly and check on the grapes--might not be so easy for the roaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a huge amount of grapes grown, and very little of it goes into the high-end bottlings. I&#8217;m really talking about the equivalent very high end of coffee, not the commodity market. I may be misunderstanding your comment, but volume seems irrelevant. I still have no idea if the model translates, but it does seem to this outsider like the coffee world is very focussed on marketing words (even, sadly, among the good people doing the right things) and that quality is not rewarded as much as it might be. I don&#8217;t know enough about coffee agriculture to know if a roaster could ask a grower to do certain things to improve quality and promise a certain amount of money no matter the yield. Most winemakers can go to the vineyard regularly and check on the grapes&#8211;might not be so easy for the roaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Haeger</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Haeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-94</guid>
		<description>Considering the volume of coffee produced across the globe, I&#039;m not sure such a model is possible just yet.  Maybe eventually, but these days, on an overall level, significantly lower prices for a slightly lower quality product will more often than not be chosen by the average green coffee buyer.

There are exceptions... naturally.  I&#039;m just not sure that there are enough exceptions to match what may be required for such a model to thrive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the volume of coffee produced across the globe, I&#8217;m not sure such a model is possible just yet.  Maybe eventually, but these days, on an overall level, significantly lower prices for a slightly lower quality product will more often than not be chosen by the average green coffee buyer.</p>
<p>There are exceptions&#8230; naturally.  I&#8217;m just not sure that there are enough exceptions to match what may be required for such a model to thrive.</p>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-80</guid>
		<description>Rewarding quality seems like the best thing for everyone. Fair Trade and the like reward ... what exactly? And that&#039;s probably why they&#039;re stuck.

Some of the most coveted and high-priced wines (and spirits, for that matter) are blends. The marketing trend toward single vineyard, single plot, single barrel, etc., is definitely not correlated to better products. More character, perhaps, but one really loud note is rarely as satisfying as actual music. Sadly, to use one of my favorite examples from the food world, people find it easier to sell pork that&#039;s labeled with a pastoral name, like White Marble Farms (http://www.ethicurean.com/2006/10/18/white-marble-farms/). Seth Godin writes about this phenomenon well in &quot;All Marketers are Liars.&quot; But why established, rock star roasters don&#039;t think their customers trust them enough to try a blend based on the fact that they made it is beyond me. I look forward to reading Geoff&#039;s comments.

Andy Beckstoffer is a big California grape grower who reviews the wines made with his grapes. If he doesn&#039;t like them, you don&#039;t get his grapes anymore. If you want his grapes you contract for the crop, whatever that year&#039;s yield. He attempts to link grape prices to bottle prices. He wants to be rewarded for quality rather than quantity (the old model). His model spreads the risk between the farmer and the winemaker, and leads to better wine and more consistent cash flow for the farmer. Is something similar possible in the coffee world? I don&#039;t know enough about it to say, but I will say that I&#039;ve been disappointed in far too many coffees that have the right words, but not the right stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rewarding quality seems like the best thing for everyone. Fair Trade and the like reward &#8230; what exactly? And that&#8217;s probably why they&#8217;re stuck.</p>
<p>Some of the most coveted and high-priced wines (and spirits, for that matter) are blends. The marketing trend toward single vineyard, single plot, single barrel, etc., is definitely not correlated to better products. More character, perhaps, but one really loud note is rarely as satisfying as actual music. Sadly, to use one of my favorite examples from the food world, people find it easier to sell pork that&#8217;s labeled with a pastoral name, like White Marble Farms (<a href="http://www.ethicurean.com/2006/10/18/white-marble-farms/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethicurean.com/2006/10/18/white-marble-farms/</a>). Seth Godin writes about this phenomenon well in &#8220;All Marketers are Liars.&#8221; But why established, rock star roasters don&#8217;t think their customers trust them enough to try a blend based on the fact that they made it is beyond me. I look forward to reading Geoff&#8217;s comments.</p>
<p>Andy Beckstoffer is a big California grape grower who reviews the wines made with his grapes. If he doesn&#8217;t like them, you don&#8217;t get his grapes anymore. If you want his grapes you contract for the crop, whatever that year&#8217;s yield. He attempts to link grape prices to bottle prices. He wants to be rewarded for quality rather than quantity (the old model). His model spreads the risk between the farmer and the winemaker, and leads to better wine and more consistent cash flow for the farmer. Is something similar possible in the coffee world? I don&#8217;t know enough about it to say, but I will say that I&#8217;ve been disappointed in far too many coffees that have the right words, but not the right stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>dan:  the other reason i guess it is so easy for me to seem to sort of argue out of both sides of my mouth (praising them one minute then deconstructing it the next) is that i can easily see more than one side to it.  ironically, i was VEHEMENTLY arguing FOR the roaster&#039;s mark in the lengthy and sometimes heated argument we were having at the guatemala table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dan:  the other reason i guess it is so easy for me to seem to sort of argue out of both sides of my mouth (praising them one minute then deconstructing it the next) is that i can easily see more than one side to it.  ironically, i was VEHEMENTLY arguing FOR the roaster&#8217;s mark in the lengthy and sometimes heated argument we were having at the guatemala table.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-92</guid>
		<description>good intentions do not constitute good actions.  i recall the old adage that small deeds are better than grand intentions.  but old grandma sayings aside, i can think of some huge examples where people (coffee people, even) intended good but where the end result or the reality on the ground was something obviously very different.

i think about fair trade.  a good start, everyone will agree.  but it hasn&#039;t moved an inch since getting to the starting line.  why hasn&#039;t the premium budged upward even one penny in all these years fair trade has been in place?  and why is it that the fair trade system&#039;s minimum premium the exact same as the maximum premium?  or that single farms are ineligible for fair trade minimums?  or that there is absolutely no system in place under the fair trade scheme to account for actual taste?  or that there are reports that surface occasionally about how fair trade/transfair cannot guarantee their premiums are even being paid out by the coops to the individual farmers, let alone to the workers in the fields.  i&#039;m not down on fair trade necessarily, or direct trade, as i&#039;ve been at pains to stress repeatedly.  but sometimes even if it&#039;s not broken, it CAN be fixed.  i just want people to acknowledge that yes, more can still be done.  i&#039;m really glad for geoff watts&#039; and peter giuliano&#039;s (and others&#039;) willingness to allow a coffee peon like me to publicly subject these systems they&#039;ve spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears setting up and running to pokings, proddings, looking for chinks in the armor.

i LOVE the idea of Direct Trade (TM).  so much so that it took me just a year for my tiny little company to scrape up the budget for me to get my bahoonkas down to a farm i buy my coffee from (with visits to other farms along the way).  because i believe in the very stuff dt espouses.  does brown practice business perfectly?  absolutely not.  but will i keep going to farms to try to source coffees?  absolutely.

fortunately/unfortunately, i am not a big enough company to have to deal with such issues as wading through hundreds of samples to come up with a blend of 12 to represent a brown roaster&#039;s mark.    for me, it is just that simple as trying to get a few bags of a micro lot and calling it by its micro lot name.

sorry to sound like a shirt of hair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good intentions do not constitute good actions.  i recall the old adage that small deeds are better than grand intentions.  but old grandma sayings aside, i can think of some huge examples where people (coffee people, even) intended good but where the end result or the reality on the ground was something obviously very different.</p>
<p>i think about fair trade.  a good start, everyone will agree.  but it hasn&#8217;t moved an inch since getting to the starting line.  why hasn&#8217;t the premium budged upward even one penny in all these years fair trade has been in place?  and why is it that the fair trade system&#8217;s minimum premium the exact same as the maximum premium?  or that single farms are ineligible for fair trade minimums?  or that there is absolutely no system in place under the fair trade scheme to account for actual taste?  or that there are reports that surface occasionally about how fair trade/transfair cannot guarantee their premiums are even being paid out by the coops to the individual farmers, let alone to the workers in the fields.  i&#8217;m not down on fair trade necessarily, or direct trade, as i&#8217;ve been at pains to stress repeatedly.  but sometimes even if it&#8217;s not broken, it CAN be fixed.  i just want people to acknowledge that yes, more can still be done.  i&#8217;m really glad for geoff watts&#8217; and peter giuliano&#8217;s (and others&#8217;) willingness to allow a coffee peon like me to publicly subject these systems they&#8217;ve spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears setting up and running to pokings, proddings, looking for chinks in the armor.</p>
<p>i LOVE the idea of Direct Trade (TM).  so much so that it took me just a year for my tiny little company to scrape up the budget for me to get my bahoonkas down to a farm i buy my coffee from (with visits to other farms along the way).  because i believe in the very stuff dt espouses.  does brown practice business perfectly?  absolutely not.  but will i keep going to farms to try to source coffees?  absolutely.</p>
<p>fortunately/unfortunately, i am not a big enough company to have to deal with such issues as wading through hundreds of samples to come up with a blend of 12 to represent a brown roaster&#8217;s mark.    for me, it is just that simple as trying to get a few bags of a micro lot and calling it by its micro lot name.</p>
<p>sorry to sound like a shirt of hair.</p>
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		<title>By: danstreetman</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>danstreetman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 23:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Jason,

why do you feel that auctions are more sustainable then the &quot;relationship&quot; based models that CC and Intelly are using?

also, how much $10+ per lb green coffee do you think that the market will support right now?  or even $5/lb green coffee...


Aaron,
I honestly don&#039;t understand how you can say &quot;their intentions are honest&quot; and yet continue to try and   deconstruct this whole thing.  We all are in pursuit of better coffee, why can&#039;t we encourage each others efforts while encouraging each other to try and do more.  Maybe I&#039;m just misunderstanding you, but I personally don&#039;t get a positive vibe from your comments about Direct Trade, even though you have made statements commending both companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>why do you feel that auctions are more sustainable then the &#8220;relationship&#8221; based models that CC and Intelly are using?</p>
<p>also, how much $10+ per lb green coffee do you think that the market will support right now?  or even $5/lb green coffee&#8230;</p>
<p>Aaron,<br />
I honestly don&#8217;t understand how you can say &#8220;their intentions are honest&#8221; and yet continue to try and   deconstruct this whole thing.  We all are in pursuit of better coffee, why can&#8217;t we encourage each others efforts while encouraging each other to try and do more.  Maybe I&#8217;m just misunderstanding you, but I personally don&#8217;t get a positive vibe from your comments about Direct Trade, even though you have made statements commending both companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Haeger</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Haeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-90</guid>
		<description>&#039;tis true.

I&#039;m more curious about the motives behind it, the thought that brought this concept to fruition, more than anything else.  That, and what the intended benefit would be, for any party involved, including consumers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8217;tis true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more curious about the motives behind it, the thought that brought this concept to fruition, more than anything else.  That, and what the intended benefit would be, for any party involved, including consumers.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-89</guid>
		<description>marc:  welcome south!  hey, we&#039;re keenly interested in what you as a marketing director for intelligentsia have to say on this.  in fact, i would say that&#039;s EXACTLY what many here would be very interested in hearing, as this is an element of the dt system that falls squarely under the purveyance of marketing (among many other things, obviously).

so please, feel free to jump in with more perspectives.  the more the merrier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marc:  welcome south!  hey, we&#8217;re keenly interested in what you as a marketing director for intelligentsia have to say on this.  in fact, i would say that&#8217;s EXACTLY what many here would be very interested in hearing, as this is an element of the dt system that falls squarely under the purveyance of marketing (among many other things, obviously).</p>
<p>so please, feel free to jump in with more perspectives.  the more the merrier.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Johnson</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-79</guid>
		<description>Guys,

I wanted to let you all know that the good folks at Intelligentsia (of which I am one) are definitely reading your posts and are interested in what you have to say.  No one wants to hear the Marketing Guy yak (yep, that&#039;s what I do), and I am going to ask Geoff Watts, Intelligentsia&#039;s Vice President of Coffee, to respond to the questions and concerns that you have.  He would post immediately, but he is currently away from his computer, desk, and office here in Chicago and is instead working in Latin and South America collaborating directly with our farmer/partners.  He definitely will get back to you.

If you have any questions in the meantime, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thanks and keep drinking great coffee!

MPJ

+++++

Marc P. Johnson
Director of Marketing
Intelligentsia Coffee
mjohnson@intelligentsiacoffee.com
312-521-7965</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys,</p>
<p>I wanted to let you all know that the good folks at Intelligentsia (of which I am one) are definitely reading your posts and are interested in what you have to say.  No one wants to hear the Marketing Guy yak (yep, that&#8217;s what I do), and I am going to ask Geoff Watts, Intelligentsia&#8217;s Vice President of Coffee, to respond to the questions and concerns that you have.  He would post immediately, but he is currently away from his computer, desk, and office here in Chicago and is instead working in Latin and South America collaborating directly with our farmer/partners.  He definitely will get back to you.</p>
<p>If you have any questions in the meantime, please feel free to contact me directly.</p>
<p>Thanks and keep drinking great coffee!</p>
<p>MPJ</p>
<p>+++++</p>
<p>Marc P. Johnson<br />
Director of Marketing<br />
Intelligentsia Coffee<br />
<a href="mailto:mjohnson@intelligentsiacoffee.com">mjohnson@intelligentsiacoffee.com</a><br />
312-521-7965</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Haeger</title>
		<link>http://tx-coffee.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/comment-page-1/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Haeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://txcp.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/indirectly/#comment-78</guid>
		<description>RE: texas ahead of the curve

Quick!  Give us a market before it&#039;s too late!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: texas ahead of the curve</p>
<p>Quick!  Give us a market before it&#8217;s too late!</p>
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